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Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.30 19:06:00 - [1] Like my navy apoc, I am still waiting for a single reason to assemble this useless pile of.... -- Billion Isk Mission
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.30 20:27:00 - [2] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 30/04/2008 20:31:14 As someone who has a Blackops, can someone tell me what I should do with it other than as a assistant to my Cov Ops Hauler (Pilgrim) Now before someone says "Oh use it to pass camps with recons", surely a recon has to get past the camp itself to setup a covert cyno? The Nanogang would just charge past the camp anyway. Then someone will say - use it to set traps. Its hard enough getting people to fight, if it could moves hics and dictors thorugh then yeah. Otherwise its not exactly that impressive trapping a bunch of pilots with recons given that the mark's will make a run for it. Especially when a covert cyno needs to be opened by a recon.... a rather weak ship. I am just waiting for CCP to increase Redeemer's cargo to carry more fuel. Then it will become next to my Cov Ops hauler(pilgrim) as a Cloaking jumpdrive Hauler that leaves no obvious cyno trail for enemies to warp to (disadvantage of carrier). How does CCP actually envisage pvp for Black ops pilots like myself to use? It needs some serious reworking so that the ship can work with hic's and dictors otherwise, like I said, Cloaking Jump drive hauler to be used alongside my cov ops hauler (pilgrim) -- Billion Isk Mission
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.30 21:06:00 - [3] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 30/04/2008 21:06:58 Originally by: Anubis Xian The problem with the Black Ops is that it doesn't do any of it's supposed roles very well. Even if it could do its "Supposed Roles", those roles are obsolete in todays pvp playstyle. I think the whole concept needs to be reworked again. -- Billion Isk Mission
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.01 06:08:00 - [4] Originally by: Lawao Ansai Humm... I am starting to think that training to balck ops will be a waste of my time... I would like somthing I can go explore the systems with without getting blown up alot... or attacked by people rats every where I go... I am very new to the game.. there will be time for PvP and PvE later.. right now I just want to explore the systems... any sugestions? thanks Covert Ops ship that can fit a Covert Ops Cloak -- Billion Isk Mission
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.01 07:48:00 - [5] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 01/05/2008 06:57:37 Originally by: Waxau totally agree here. We all love the idea of 'ooooooh lets cyno in behind them, cause mayhem, without them knowing, and mwhahahaha evvvviiil'. But the fact is, that the kinds of scenarios where that is useful, just dont exist nowdays. You dont get many low sec mining ops, or small pewpew corps in 0.0. You get blobs, ganks, and overkill. And lets give a scenario. Isn't it more that you can't open the cyno in half the systems in the game? Just letting them ignore cyno jammers would be a big start(What, are they going to siege your POS with Manticores and Pilgrims?) Even if they could ignore cynojammers, you are still left with the same fundamental problems with Black ops. -- Billion Isk Mission
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.02 14:08:00 - [6] Originally by: Dexton Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Dexton Your completely missing the point. They are not supposed to be solopwnmobiles. They are not supposed to be the ultimate gang ship. They are supposed bring a very specialized role in very specialized situation. They are supposed to open jump portals for medium sized gang and cloak and manuver out of harms way while the medium sized gang you just jump portalled in do their job. To make sure you aren't just going around scouting for enemies and then jump portalling a gang on top of them you can't warp cloaked. To make sure you aren't just jump portalling all over eve you have small cargo so you need a hauler for fuel. So all their "cons" are there for a good reason, to not make it a solopwnmobile but rather as a logistical aid. Let me know when you actually can actually find a situation where this 'specialization' is of any use. Then perhaps myself, CCP, and everyone else in this thread will realise they dont need a boost. Covertops scouts -> portal is opened-> Hauler/Blockade Runner for fuel -> gang goes through -> gang pewpew's -> Covertops scouts -> portal is opened-> Hauler/Blockade Runner for fuel -> gang goes through. It's supposed to be a hassle to justify titans. Incorrect. It would help if you flew a Black ops before making up stuff like that. I am a black ops pilot and the only use they are is for Jumpdrive Hauler. Cargo Expanded Redeemer carries around 4km3, though half of that is going to be fuel. Even better, I can Tag it along with a 1.4km3 Cov ops hauler (pilgrim) and portal it to make it move high value low volume loot around pretty safely and quickly. Thats how Black ops is being used currently. Because the type of pvp that CCP have in mind for the black ops has not existed for the last year or two. If you think I am wrong, then please tell us realistic scenarios where someone would use a black ops?
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.02 17:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Dexton Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Dexton Your completely missing the point. They are not supposed to be solopwnmobiles. They are not supposed to be the ultimate gang ship. They are supposed bring a very specialized role in very specialized situation. They are supposed to open jump portals for medium sized gang and cloak and manuver out of harms way while the medium sized gang you just jump portalled in do their job. To make sure you aren't just going around scouting for enemies and then jump portalling a gang on top of them you can't warp cloaked. To make sure you aren't just jump portalling all over eve you have small cargo so you need a hauler for fuel. So all their "cons" are there for a good reason, to not make it a solopwnmobile but rather as a logistical aid. Let me know when you actually can actually find a situation where this 'specialization' is of any use. Then perhaps myself, CCP, and everyone else in this thread will realise they dont need a boost. Covertops scouts -> portal is opened-> Hauler/Blockade Runner for fuel -> gang goes through -> gang pewpew's -> Covertops scouts -> portal is opened-> Hauler/Blockade Runner for fuel -> gang goes through. It's supposed to be a hassle to justify titans. I must admit, i loled at this bit So - Lets just presume that the world is upside down, and that scenario actually is feasible, and BETTER than everyone participating just hopping in a bs, and flying thru the gates...Right..So. How is that hauler meant to provide you fuel, in the target system? You have a hauler there to give you fuel to jump the gang, ok - fair enough. Long winded, and not what CCP intended regardless of what you think - But good enough. Now - How are you getting them back? From what you've said, you have said blockade runner. Wheres that come from? Through the gates? If so, why not a full bs gang? or a fleet of anything else? Why a 700 mil bs, and a load of cloaking ships? Even more so, what scenario even calls for a cloaking gang of that size? Only feasible situation would be that all the gates are camped. In which case 1. Hows the cov ops gonna get in? 2. What about the fuel again? and 3. Why even bother with all that hassle and isk cost, when you can just grab yourself a t1 bs, fly into the system with your fellow buddies, and just blow everyone up - Win or lose, you come off far better than if you flew a black ops. On top of what you said, the "Finish Him" quote is that if such a small cruiser sized gang needed to get past, they would simply nano up and go around camps or blast through them. Thus defeating any point to these ships other than becoming Jumpdrive Haulers
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.03 20:08:00 - [8] Fix for blackops is a lot more drastic than you mention. These whole ships really need to be scrapped and rebuilt for something new. I think a clean sheet of paper is needed for these so that these ships are actually viable and not comedy stuff. Some people say there is little point in training up past Black ops lvl1 on a Redeemer for example. I can see why. Basically, someone needs to look at real pvp nowadays and fit blackops in a sensible role around that, rather than put bandages on a broken leg to try to fix it.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.05 09:49:00 - [9] Originally by: AnarkiTheStorm an easy fix would be to allow any ships to go through the jump portal but to a certain mass% as in ceptors and dictors WOOP WOOP cos yer... stealth bomber gangs suck ass In its current borked state, if it portal though anyone, and the people jumping use fual in their own cargo and not the black ops cargo, then yeah, I can see a point to it. Till then, its a excellent jump drive hauler and a excellent ship to portal my jumpdrive Cov Ops (cargo expanded pilgrim) -- Billion Isk Mission
Lord WarATron Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.21 16:25:00 - [10] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 21/05/2008 16:25:49 Issues with black ops are just too deep due to pvp being compleatly different nowadays. But here, rather than talk about these black ops fix's which are the same as putting a bandage on a broken leg, can someone actually tell me a proper real world non-comedy scenario where these ships can actually be used? Imo, the whole class needs to be scrapped and redesigned with real world pvp in mind -- Billion Isk Mission

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